rp1966 (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 This has become a tactical experiment, but it started as a joke. The main team in my current save is West Ham. I'm playing a very conventional 4-1-2-2-1 (4-V-1) formation and getting very conventional results. Mid table in the first season and likely to finish in a slightly stronger mid-table position in the second. At the end of the first season (the first with the 14.3 patch) Man Utd had not slumped and had in fact won the league and FA Cup double. When they started pulling away again in the 2014/15 season, the lack of Moyes effect bugged me so I decided to add myself as manager and spoil their season with the aim of leaving them in a more realistic Europa League position. Rather than just play weak players and sell off the stars I decided I'd play 19th Century football - not in the Mourinho sense of parking the charabanc and playing hoofball as levelled at WHU, but stupidly attacking formations with the emphasis on dribbling that was the reality of football in the 1880/90s. I started by playing 1-1-3-5, using a limited defender and half back - the results were predictably, spectacularly bad - the first game was 6-2 thrashing by Swansea at the Liberty, followed by 3-1 away to Basel and 8-2 away at Everton. It certainly was a success in terms of spoiling their season, but I was going to get sacked too quickly. Looking at my copy of 'Inverting the Pyramid' showed that once the rules of early football had settled down a little bit of ground had been conceded to the idea of defence and the common formation was 2-3-5. Having made that change, the joke was on me, Man Utd's 19th century formation stopped losing. First game - away to Villa. You would expect the counter-attacking pace to rip Man Utd's 2-3-5 to shreds, but no - the game finished 1-1. Second game - home to Arsenal. Easy win for Arsenal with their ability to keep possession? No. 1-0 to Man Utd. This was getting interesting. Third game - home to Lech. Champions League group stage dead rubber. 6-1 to Man Utd. So that's where I am at the moment. Instead of playing Man Utd into managed decline I'm now trying to see how well I can do with the 2-3-5 formation. The joke's on me! In the Lech game the team was: GK - De Gea CDL - Shawcross (CD-D) CDR - Evans (LD-D) CML - Fellaini (BBM-S) CMC - Bender (DLP-D) - normally Carrick CMR - Cleverly (CM-A) AML - Young (W-A) STCL - Rooney (DLF-A) STC - Wellback (P-A) STCR - Mata (DLF-S) AMR - Valencia (W-A) Playing Standard/Balanced. Team instructions: Work Ball into Box Higher Tempo Run at Defence Retain possession Attacking players have PIs to dribble more where the role doesn't already encourage it. What is interesting about the way this is playing out so far is that the lack of full-backs seems to have no effect on my ability to defend. Wide defending is done either by the CD going wide and a midfielder dropping in or the midfielder tracking the runner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brawla123 (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I'm not surprised it started giving you good results. I think United have the perfect players for that kind of style and I'm assuming you score a lot of goals from counter-attacking? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp1966 (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 I'm not surprised it started giving you good results. I think United have the perfect players for that kind of style and I'm assuming you score a lot of goals from counter-attacking? Most seem to be because the opposition finds it so hard to get out. All the attacking players put the defenders under pressure, so sometimes they'll lose the ball there. If they try to play more direct the ball is usually picked up by one of the central defenders sitting on the half-way line. What is more interesting is what happens when an attack does get through. It's almost as if the lack of defensive players means that they are more decisive. I'm seeing very few defensive errors either from the two centre backs or from the goalkeeper. Most goals are through nice interplay around the edge of the 18 yard box. Following match was Capital cup quarter final at home to Huddersfield - 4-1 win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brawla123 (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Most seem to be because the opposition finds it so hard to get out. All the attacking players put the defenders under pressure, so sometimes they'll lose the ball there. If they try to play more direct the ball is usually picked up by one of the central defenders sitting on the half-way line. What is more interesting is what happens when an attack does get through. It's almost as if the lack of defensive players means that they are more decisive. I'm seeing very few defensive errors either from the two centre backs or from the goalkeeper.Most goals are through nice interplay around the edge of the 18 yard box. Following match was Capital cup quarter final at home to Huddersfield - 4-1 win. Nice, have you completed a whole season with this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp1966 (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Nice, have you completed a whole season with this? No, I only took over in early November and am now about to go into the Xmas fixture congestion. Have drawn Athletico Madrid in the first CL knockout round, so that should be a test. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brawla123 (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 No, I only took over in early November and am now about to go into the Xmas fixture congestion. Have drawn Athletico Madrid in the first CL knockout round, so that should be a test. Okay cool. Let us know how it goes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp1966 (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Didn't have to wait for Athletico for my first test. Reading away (and in the relegation zone) - they played a counter attacking 4-4-2 which absorbed my pressure and broke at speed with 4 players. Looked like 4-2-4 in the counters. It took me a while to act to deal with what they were doing and was 4-0 down at half-time. However, had I reacted earlier I could have probably still won as in the second half I switched to counter myself and won the second half 3-1. So a 5-3 loss, but I'll know what to do next time someone tries that against me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp1966 (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 After the Reading game it was back to winning ways. Two home games against Fulham and Hull. Fulham came with a 4-4-2 diamond which made little impact on the 2-3-5 and went home with a 4-1 defeat. Hull tried the same trick as Reading and with Shane Long a real threat in this year's game they had a real go. I dropped Rooney from DLF-A to DLF-S to see if I could get a little bit of extra control, but it didn't make a great deal of difference. Seeing that he has the 'Comes Deep for the Ball' PPM probably explains why. As with the Reading game it ended with a 5-3 scoreline, but this time in my favour. The 2-3-5 has so far given 5 wins, 1 draw and 1 defeat. Not too bad for such a dated formation. I suspect it would work quite well with a few of the big teams - I could see Barcelona or Chelsea being able to use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarltonBanks (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 After reading Inverting the Pyramid, I was thinking about using very old tactics in FM, glad to see I'm not the only one! Sometime I'm going to try to take a team to success with a W-M formation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitri0l (Inactive) Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Be interesting to see how this plays out. I am using something fairly similar but i am a bit of a coward and have my midfield 3 in the DM strata. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp1966 (Inactive) Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Well things turned sour for 19th Century football through the Xmas period and it hasn't got much better since - a sacking is just a matter of time. Weaker teams are parking the bus. If the 5 forwards can't break them down then we're susceptible to a counter or set piece - break through and we tend to run away with the game. Teams with fast forwards are going down the attack route - if they can get 4 vs 2 before my midfielders funnel back then I'm in trouble. Man City did this resulting in a 7-2 aggregate score in the League Cup semi-final. However when Liverpool tried that they failed - we beat them 3-1 The record with 2-3-5 is now W8 D1 L8. So my earlier thoughts that a big team could get away with 2-3-5 are looking unfounded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brawla123 (Inactive) Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Well things turned sour for 19th Century football through the Xmas period and it hasn't got much better since - a sacking is just a matter of time.Weaker teams are parking the bus. If the 5 forwards can't break them down then we're susceptible to a counter or set piece - break through and we tend to run away with the game. Teams with fast forwards are going down the attack route - if they can get 4 vs 2 before my midfielders funnel back then I'm in trouble. Man City did this resulting in a 7-2 aggregate score in the League Cup semi-final. However when Liverpool tried that they failed - we beat them 3-1 The record with 2-3-5 is now W8 D1 L8. So my earlier thoughts that a big team could get away with 2-3-5 are looking unfounded. Unlucky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rp1966 (Inactive) Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Unlucky Maybe I need to work my way though 'Inverting the Pyramid' with each sacking - I think 2-3-2-3 is the next development ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brawla123 (Inactive) Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Maybe I need to work my way though 'Inverting the Pyramid' with each sacking - I think 2-3-2-3 is the next development ... I'm sure it will suit some club out there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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