A tad unrealistic don't you think?

[dieu (Inactive)]

First of a I'll give you a bit of backstory to explain my current predicament.

It's the year of the lord 2045 and I have won 31 cups (Including multiple Champions League wins) and 18 league titles and I am a club legend at both Ajax and Manchester United. Needless to say my reputation in the game could not be better.
After a while I wanted a new challenge and when FC United sacked their manager I resigned at Man Utd and applied. I've been in charge at FC United for 3 seasons and find myself in League One after 3 straight promotions. 

Given that history you would think that players would love to sign for me. But NOO! Most players do not want to come at all and the ones that do not reject me out of hand sign for non-league teams instead of me.

 

These are just the latest in a looong line of players that have rejected me and moved to clubs below me.

I get that the clubs reputation has not caught up with the recent success, but shouldn't your manager reputation have an effect as well? If Klopp or Guardiola suddenly moved to Boston Utd or Gillingham you would expect that they would be able to sign players that wouldn't dream of signing for those clubs otherwise!

Sorry for the rant. Just needed to went.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by dieu

[FrazT (Inactive)]

Players wanting to sign for another cub is controlled by several factors like club, league and manager reputation.  As you say, manager reputation can take a while to catch up and many of the reputation figures are calculated using a rolling 5 year average so it will continue to rise .

[DamianJMcGrath (Inactive)]

But a world class manager would give an immediate boost to a club. Not just part of a 5 year average. 

[Daveincid (Inactive)]

I guess those players wouldn't play a big role at your club when they got signed by vanarama-league teams.
In FM22 (and I think already in FM21) you can't hoard a ton of players anymore and they are just happy. Those are young players who want playing-time. So they don't see valuable reasons to develop in your U23 team and prefer to play senior football instead. Beside that, a managers influence is very limited (but it exists) in this regard to convince a player to join a club. 

I mean I wouldn't work for Tesla for 50k a year and only copy some papers just to say that Elon Musk is my boss when another company offers me 70k a year and a interesting job-profile. 
 

vor 42 Minuten schrieb DamianJMcGrath:

But a world class manager would give an immediate boost to a club. Not just part of a 5 year average. 

Managers are changing the level where they work much more frequently as players. Take Sven-Göran Eriksson as example:
He won so many titles in Italy or Portugal. Was also a manager of England or Man City. He then was a manager in Thailand for BEC-Tero Sasana. 

I haven't heard that they signed any talented/well known player who thought: "I need to play for BEC-Tero Sasana, they have a manager who is known worldwide."
 

[DamianJMcGrath (Inactive)]

Do you not think some players might be attracted to Salford because of who owns them? 

And players all the time are saying they signed for a club because they wanted to play for a certain manager

[Daveincid (Inactive)]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb DamianJMcGrath:

Do you not think some players might be attracted to Salford because of who owns them? 

And players all the time are saying they signed for a club because they wanted to play for a certain manager

No I don't. 
Of course they are saying this, but this is usually after they've signed the good contract and not the bad one. Of course everyone says he would love to play under Pep or Klopp. They both managing clubs who are paying some of the highest wages worldwide. As soon as a player outgrows a specific club, he want to move on, no matter who's the manager, except they are paying him an incredible salary to convince him to stay. He will then say he stayed because of the manager/club. The main reason was the money.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Daveincid

[DamianJMcGrath (Inactive)]

But, would you expect a player to have a choice between a League 1 club managed by a world class manager and a Conference side, and for them to choose the lower side, at presumably lower wages? 

[Daveincid (Inactive)]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb DamianJMcGrath:

But, would you expect a player to have a choice between a League 1 club managed by a world class manager and a Conference side, and for them to choose the lower side, at presumably lower wages? 

If the offer isn't almost "immorally" high, then the lower side. There isn't any reason to offer those players a massive salary at all so, as I already mentioned: Those players ability will be on vanarama-level, otherwise those clubs wouldn't be able to sign him anyway. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Daveincid

[dieu (Inactive)]

2 hours ago, Daveincid said:

I guess those players wouldn't play a big role at your club when they got signed by vanarama-league teams.
In FM22 (and I think already in FM21) you can't hoard a ton of players anymore and they are just happy. Those are young players who want playing-time. So they don't see valuable reasons to develop in your U23 team and prefer to play senior football instead. Beside that, a managers influence is very limited (but it exists) in this regard to convince a player to join a club. 
 

Problem is that both were intended to be in the first team. One as a regular starter and the other as a squad player. I did not offer them crazy money, but the wage I offered was about the same as they are earning now at their new clubs.

In other words they turned down an offer from a world class manager that offered them a  role in the first team on comparable wages , and instead signed for a club 2 and 3 divisions below. I don't find that very realistic at all.

If it happend once I wold not react, but tHey are just the last in a long line of players where this has happened.  

To be honest, neither of them are players that I would normally sign, but since I am really struggeling to get players that are better I am forced to sign less talented role players. 
I am signing them because they are very good at what I need them to do, but terrible at everything else.

[Daveincid (Inactive)]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb dieu:

Problem is that both were intended to be in the first team. One as a regular starter and the other as a squad player. I did not offer them crazy money, but the wage I offered was about the same as they are earning now at their new clubs.

In other words they turned down an offer from a world class manager that offered them a  role in the first team on comparable wages , and instead signed for a club 2 and 3 divisions below. I don't find that very realistic at all.

If it happend once I wold not react, but tHey are just the last in a long line of players where this has happened.  

To be honest, neither of them are players that I would normally sign, but since I am really struggeling to get players that are better I am forced to sign less talented role players. 
I am signing them because they are very good at what I need them to do, but terrible at everything else.

My point is that the game has it's reasons why those players declined your offer. I only tried to explain some possibilities. I can't say what exactly the reason was. Therefore I would need the save-game. If this would be a bug, it would have been spotted way earlier because contract-negotiation is a core-element in Football Manager. If you really think it's a bug then it might be worth posting it here: https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/849-football-manager-2022-bugs-forum/

[dieu (Inactive)]

I do not think it is a bug, but I do not think it is working as intended either, because I am sure that you would agree that 9 out of 10 players or maybe even 99 out of 100 would not make the same choice these two players did.

The issue here is that I got promoted to fast so the clubs reputation is still very low (Probably on the same level as the non-league clubs), I also think that the manager reputations role in transfers is to small, and that is why these players went to non-league clubs instead of my club.

I think that manager reputation should have a larger impact on transfers. Especially in lower leagues. I am sure you would agree that if Klopp or Guardiola went and managed a non-league club they would be able to sign players that said club would not normally be able to sign?

Edited April 15, 2022 by dieu

[Daveincid (Inactive)]

vor 1 Minute schrieb dieu:

I think that manager reputation should have a larg impact on transfers. Especially in lower leagues. I am sure you would agree that if Klopp or Guardiola went an managed a non-league club they would be able to sign players that said club would not normally be able to sign?

No, this is still the part which I disagree, but any debate about this is useless as we simply both have our own view  

[dieu (Inactive)]

4 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

No, this is still the part which I disagree, but any debate about this is useless as we simply both have our own view  

No, I can't accept that! Everyone needs to agree with me! 😂

[Daveincid (Inactive)]

Gerade eben schrieb dieu:

No, I can't accept that! Everyone needs to agree with me! 😂

Haha Except those youngsters who think Boston is more beautiful as Manchester :P

[dieu (Inactive)]

3 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Haha Except those youngsters who think Boston is more beautiful as Manchester :P

The b******s! 😂

Btw I have reloaded the save from an old autosave, and offered silly wages to both of them. 
I managed to sign one of them, but the other decided to go to Tranmere in League Two on a trial instead. Something is not quite right here.

Edited April 15, 2022 by dieu

[dieu (Inactive)]

Yeah... It just happened again. 

Clayton Amankwah. Offered a competitive wage and squad player status. Signed for Dover Athletic in Conference South. 
I did not offer him enough bonuses....

[Daveincid (Inactive)]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb dieu:

Yeah... It just happened again. 

Clayton Amankwah. Offered a competitive wage and squad player status. Signed for Dover Athletic in Conference South. 
I did not offer him enough bonuses....

https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/849-football-manager-2022-bugs-forum/

[Spurs08 (Inactive)]

I agree with you. Normally a club reputation should be more important, but an absolutely world-class manager at a very low level should make much more of a difference. If Alex Ferguson had gone to a League One team, he would certainly have been a major factor in players signing for them.

[Bielsa1975 (Inactive)]

On 14/04/2022 at 22:22, FrazT said:

Players wanting to sign for another cub is controlled by several factors like club, league and manager reputation.  As you say, manager reputation can take a while to catch up and many of the reputation figures are calculated using a rolling 5 year average so it will continue to rise .

its just the script its always been there its what has ruined the game 

[Bielsa1975 (Inactive)]

10 hours ago, dieu said:

Yeah... It just happened again. 

Clayton Amankwah. Offered a competitive wage and squad player status. Signed for Dover Athletic in Conference South. 
I did not offer him enough bonuses....

but i bet he signed for dover on a 90% less basic wage 

[dieu (Inactive)]

5 hours ago, Bielsa1975 said:

but i bet he signed for dover on a 90% less basic wage 

Yes. He took a wage cut, but not by much. £250 less a month.

 

5 hours ago, Bielsa1975 said:

its just the script its always been there its what has ruined the game 

Ruined the game is a bit harsh don't you think. I can't agree that a game I have spent 1400 hours playing is broken or ruined in any way. Could they improve? Sure! Is there things in the game that are frustrating and poorly designed? Yes! Does that mean that the game is broken/ruined? No! My personal though about this is that people are to reactionary these days. If things isn't great or amazing it is ****, ruined, or broken. There seems to be no middle ground these days! 
For me personnally I appreciate that FM22 is harder, because the last few versions has been to easy.
I am finding transfers to be more frustrating this year, but that just adds to the challenge.

Edited April 16, 2022 by dieu

[Bielsa1975 (Inactive)]

5 hours ago, dieu said:

Yes. He took a wage cut, but not by much. £250 less a month.

 

Ruined the game is a bit harsh don't you think. I can't agree that a game I have spent 1400 hours playing is broken or ruined in any way. Could they improve? Sure! Is there things in the game that are frustrating and poorly designed? Yes! Does that mean that the game is broken/ruined? No! My personal though about this is that people are to reactionary these days. If things isn't great or amazing it is ****, ruined, or broken. There seems to be no middle ground these days! 
For me personnally I appreciate that FM22 is harder, because the last few versions has been to easy.
I am finding transfers to be more frustrating this year, but that just adds to the challenge.

Transfers have always ruined it ,i took FC Isle of man all the way to the VNN took me 11seasons  just using free transfers , lost my 4 star players who was on £700 a week they wanted £2500 a week to stay they dropped to VNS on £475 , but every freebie i tried to sign in VNN wanted 3 to 5 k a week but the players went elsewhere for the league average £475/700 but if the agent thinks they are worth 3 to 5 k shouldnt they be getting that elsewhere ? After all he turned down your 1.2k,but its how the AI to AI scripts work ,same as transfer offers you have to pay triple the AI to AI transfer , its always been that way in every FM game it wont change ,people come on here moaning they have hammered a team and got beat 1-0 by the AI teams only shot on goal ,they get told it happens in real life to as thats what the game is about ,ollie palmer dropping down from league 1 to VNN for 4k a week happens in real life to ,but in FM you can bet he would of turned down the 4k a week and gone to alloa for £385 a week .but theres no point moaning about it its not changed in 20years